755 couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

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Nobody else on roids did it.

The worst guy who could have broken the most prestigious record in sports.

Well done, MLB. Thanks for letting him do it.

Thought that this was kinda ironic.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/base...ex.html?cnn=yes

I don't get how he could be the worst guy?

I'm happy for him, go bonds!

He's a lying, arrogant cheater and the shining example of true classlessness in professional sports. I hope someone writes an asterisk on #756 and hands it back to him for free.

Oh well, I think anyone with any sort of grasp on baseball history knows that Aaron's the real home run champion and actually stood for something. Hopefully, once A-Rod breaks the record Bonds will just go down as the dick who used steroids.

I just can't wait till A-Rod breaks it so this anti bonds bashing just stops.

If Bonds wasn't in contention for the HR race he wouldn't get any shit.

The steroids issue isn't a Barry Bonds problem, it's a baseball problem.

Welcome to America.




Thats saying a whole damn lot. I mean, im not saying it wont happen, but thats really saying a lot. A-Rod's barely like half-way through his career, and everyone knows how injuries can end a career at any time.

And the steroids problem isn't a baseball problem; its an American problem. Baseball, football, pro wrestling, biking, MMA, bodybuilding... you name it, there have been people busted for 'roids. We cheat and lie, like ZH said. It's how the country was built.

Yea I know it's a problem in all these sports.

But I'm saying in the sport of baseball it's not Barry Bond's fault for doing steroids, he didn't tarnish the game. The game has been tarnished since the 70s. People have been taking roids in baseball for over 30 decades.

What do you mean it's not Barry's fault? He took them willingly and used them to boost his game enough so he could break records. That's directly involving yourself in cheating and he should take responsibility.

Just because the game's been that way doesn't mean he has an excuse, and in no way do the actions of others absolve him.

Yes, Dan, but the only reason Bonds is under the microscope is because he has record breaking potential. In the time that he took them, tons of players were taking them, and there was no written rule in baseball against it. He did what he had to in order to perform. And since then, testing has been rigorous, and he's still hitting 30+ per year. Is his record as impressive as Aaron's? No, Aaron's was pure. But give Bonds a little credit. He had a lot of home runs outside of being on the juice, if he was. Roids can make you take a ball farther, but they aren't going to help you get the pure contact that Bonds is still able to get. Do I like Bonds? Hell no. I think he's a pompous ass. But the fact remains, what he did is still amazing. And besides, it wont last long.

Nice guys finish last

some role model you are

Most completely untrue quote ever.

Oh, im not saying it excuses him. Im just saying thats the way shit is here. We're cheaters here in the US.

Athletes should not be role models.



Dog eat dog motherfucker.

SO my roomate and I were talking about the whole steroid issue...

Apparently steroids weren't even illegal in baseball at the time he and players like Sosa and Mark were taking them.

So other than being illegal in the US I don't see a problem. If it's not a rule in baseball the who cares.

ALso I'm telling you guys, you'd be surprised how many supplements are considered illegal. GUys with that much money and trainers are probably handed lifting supplements all the time. Shit you can find at GNC is considered illegal in baseball, maybe he just didn't realize it wasn't allowed in baseball.

I still don't see the big deal. People make it seem as if they only support the righteous "clean" players but shit I bet just about every athlete you support is on some sort of supplement.

There is a quote I read somewhere: "You can tell who is using steroids, but you can't tell who isn't." They really are everywhere.

Exactly. So let Bonds have his moment, until A-rod shatters it. It's nice to see a 30-year record go down.

SURVIVAL OF THE FIT ONLY THE STRONG SURVIVE

THat's what I'm saying. Just let him have his fucking moment.

It was a dark era in baseball where many players were using fucking steroids.

But how many other people are at fucking 755? Just one, so clearly his record is quite fucking amazing. ANd like I said Roids (I'm pretty sure) weren't even illegal at the time.

You can't get pissed off at Barry Bonds, it's fucking Bud Selic's fault and the rest of the MLB governing body for waiting so long to deal with the problem.

No one had a fucking problem with steroids in the MLB until Conseco announced it publicly and now everyone is trying to act like they as fans are too good to appreciate players like Sosa, McGuire, Abreu (SP?), Ordonez, Bonds, and many others. Like fuck you guys as fans, they do this shit for you and for their teams.

Don't act all high and mighty like you can't appreciate Bond's record, no other mother fucker did it.....

And if you look at all the times Bonds has been walked next to Aaron, he would have fucking 900 home runs. So in my honest opinion Bonds is the homerun champion.

I just looked up the number actually.....2615, that's like 5 seasons taken away from him. But whatever there's no changing your guys mind.

Like I've stated a lot, I don't think taking roids is right. I don't think just because others do them that a player should to stay with the competition. But there's no denying that large percentage of baseball has taken them and only one man out of the last 30+ years of steroid abuse in the MLB (if he even took them) has cranked 71 homeruns in a season and hit over 700 homeruns and had 8 golden gloves and 6 MVPs.

Barry Bonds, congratulations, you sir are the best baseball player ever.

Ugh. That just disgusts me, man. Not only do home runs not calculate how good of a baseball player someone is, the fact that he wasn't true in doing it and only cares about himself makes him less of a baseball player than most any of the greats.

He can have his moment, but I won't acknowledge or accept it. He's not the home run king and never will be regardless of whether or not A-Rod breaks it in a few years.

Babe Ruth is the best player of all time.

Dude did you guys not read what I wrote?

8 Golden Gloves
6 MVPS

Pretty sure those two are the most

He's the ONLY member of the 500/500 club HR/Stolen Bases

755 HR (and still counting)
71 HR in one season.

That's way better than ruth, I'm sure fat Babe Ruth sucked at whatever position he played. Bonds won 8 GOlden Gloves.

Ironically enough, Barry gained 0 gold gloves after the '98 season and received 4 MVP's from 2001-2004. Steroids can do that for a person. You know, slow them down.

Ruth's line by the time he retired was .342/.474/.690
Bonds line right now is .298/.444/.607 and those numbers have exploded up since he "allegedly" started using steroids.

All of Ruth's well known stats aside, he probably would have won 200 games or more if he hadn't switched to the outfield after three years of real pitching. Just check out his website or something, he's arguably better than Bonds WITH his steroid aided numbers.

How can you not include Bond's 8 golden gloves, just because they happened early in his career? Those years count too when considering best all time player.

Did you see all those things I listed? Those are all records!

And those numbers you gave, good Babe Ruth had better numbers, but Bonds' are still pretty damn good numbers. I'm sure there are players with better numbers than Babe Ruth, doesn't make them better. I'm saying look at his career, all those records man.

And Babe Ruth winning 200 games? You're saying he would have won 200 games based off of 3 years pitching? How can you say that? It takes a career to get 200 wins. John Smoltz has like 203....you can't just make a prediction on wins after 3 years...plenty of people have had a good 3 year run, doesn't mean they are gonna get 200 wins.

Gold gloves are just really overrated to me, it's all a popularity contest. A guy like Jim Edmonds who's known for hot dogging a play just so he can dive at the end has 7 gold gloves while Amaris Ramirez gets jobbed in 2006 and will probably get jobbed again this year. It's all about who gets recognized for the flashy plays.

Hank Aaron took amphetamines. Other than that, I agree with this post.



Good post so far.



You can do that with any player though. How many home runs would Ted Williams have if he wasn't such a disciplined hitter and didn't walk so much? What about Hank Aaron, or Babe Ruth, or hell, even A-Rod or Griffey? (Which brings up another point...if it weren't for injuries to Griffey we wouldn't even be discussing Bonds right now. But that's not how it happened, so here we are.) You can't really use that as a credible stat.



With you there.



No. Babe Ruth is the best baseball player of all time. You have to consider the eras they played in. The year Barry Bonds hit 71 homers, a good benchmark of success in the major leagues was 40 homers. The year Ruth hit 60 homers, nobody else in the majors hit more than 20. Ruth played in an era where the pitchers mounds were higher and the outfield fences were deeper...seeing a ball get batted out of the park was extremely rare until Ruth did it. After teams saw the value of a homer, they moved their outfield fences in so that their own power hitters could hit more of them. Not to mention that Ruth had a much shorter career than Bonds, a worse training regimen, (imagine how much more awesome he'd be with the wonders of modern medicine and training. He could have been a musclebound tower instead of a lumbering fat guy.) and less of an understanding of how hitting for power really works. That, and he was one of the best pitchers of his time, and even after he switched to right field was above league average until near the end of his career. Even with steroids, Ruth is a better player than Bonds.



They're also completely subjective. MVP less so than Gold Gloves, which are awarded usually to the most flashy defensivve players as instead of the best, but how many times do you hear of an awesome player on a team that finishes 10 games back in their division winning the MVP, even if he's clearly the best baseball player in the game?



Quite impressive. Given time, it will be less so.



If you honestly don't even know what position Babe Ruth played, you have no reason to be discussing baseball.

Like I said, he only started being a bad fielder near the end of his career. Also, there was no Gold Glove award in Babe Ruth's time, so it's not really a fair comparison.

And there it goes. Congrats, Barry. You've finally passed it.

I thought the message from Aaron was nice. At least it was something.

This really shows how much this town loves Barry.

That's just because he plays for them. Replace him with anyone else and they'd react the same way. And they're the only ones.

Is someone in this topic actually saying that Bonds is a better player than Ruth? Ludicrous. The first time he got 400 AB in a season was in 1919, in his fifth full season. Assuming he played everyday for his first four seasons and that he hit 30 HR a season, which is far from unrealistic, he would have over 800 HR, making the record pretty much out of reach except for anyone not named A-Rod. The ballparks are smaller. The pitching mound is lower. Medical care and training regiments are infinitely better than when Ruth played. Placed in this era, Ruth could probably hit 1000 HR. (Some analyst has a book out whose title I can't remember saying just that.) Even with steroids, small ballparks, and all the other advantages, Bonds has barely 40 HR more than Ruth. There's no question who the better player is. (And yes, I know Bonds' home ballpark is large, but he still has plenty of HR in the bandboxes he plays in on the road.)

EDIT: As for how I feel about Barry, I respect the record. In my mind, I automatically put steroid era records on a lower pedestal than other eras because of the taint. This is no different. I recognize that he is the best hitter of the steroid era, however, and give him credit for it. No asterisks needed. I don't respect his record as much as the ones set by Ruth or Aaron because of the likelihood of steroid use, but in terms of the steroid era alone, he is clearly the king.

His first season were in the dead-ball era. In 1919, he broke the HR record with less than 30. It would be a much safer bet to say that he could of gotten 15 HRs in those seasons.

Epoch are you sure ball parks are that much smaller now days? Plus like Zebra said, homeruns don't mean everything.

Only thing about Bonds not being best player ever is....has he even been to the world series? So that brings him down if the answer is no.

And I'd say pitchers are a lot better now days relative to the old days.
Maybe this is something I've only noticed but I'd say competition in most sports over the last century has gotten more intense in every sport. So I'd say it'd be easier to hit off a pitcher back in the day.

I just see athletes now days and automatically assume the best now are better than the old, maybe it's just my bias of watching sports in this era.

It's like if you ever watch an 80s Lakers/Celtics game, bball was different then. if you watch that shit it's the ugliest defense and offensive schemes you could ever see.

And Clown, Bonds will probably be the only member of 500/500 club, want to know why? He's the only member of the 400/400 club.....but I agree, can't really compare outfielding because no golden glove back then. But bonds was the same way, amazing outfielder start of career not so great end. And my bad on not know RUth's position, I know he pitched a bit but I wasn't sure where in the field he was, it was the 1920s.

Oh yea....

I think we can all agree that the older of Bond's daughter is fucking smoking hot....watch her be like 14 years old after I said that, but oh well....

"This record is not tainted, at all." - Bonds @ press confrence

LOLZ

The baseball tonight "anlysts" sucking off Barry are even worse.

Uhm, what do you expect them to do? He did just break possibly the greatest record in all of sports....they should literally be sucking him off.

The center field wall in the Polo Grounds was 505 feet from the plate. In the original Yankee Stadium, it was 395 to left, 460 to left center, 490 to center, 445 to right center and 350 to straightaway right. Most center field walls today are about 400 feet from the plate, with other walls averaging from 300-350 on average. I'd say baseball parks have gotten considerably smaller.



It takes more than one player to take a team to the World Series. No, Bonds has never been there. Ruth went, but only because all of the Yankees teams he played for were also great. The farthest Bonds has gotten was the NL Championship Series, which as a Pirates fan I prefer not to think about.



Yes, pitchers themselves are better, if only for the new kinds of pitches that have been invented. Babe Ruth never even heard of a slider. However, the ballpark sizes, mound levels, and general improvement of the hitters as well has made it easier to hit off of todays pitchers. Today you're considered a solid pitcher if you can keep an ERA of around 4.00. In Ruth's time, that would have gotten you cut from a team...the average ERA back then was almost half of that, 2.30.



On average, yes. The atheletes today have the benefit of better training regimens, modern medicine, etc. and also a better understanding of the sport. I read somewhere that if Honus Wagner played today and didn't change anything about his style...that is, still choked up extremely high on his bat, stood in a squared stance, etc., he would have been a .200 hitter. However, give him the benefits of modern training and medicine, and he could still hit .360. However, with a player as exceptional as Ruth, he could have stayed exactly the same and still hit somewhere around 600 homers for his career. Add the same benefits everyone else receives, and he'd hit an earth-shattering 800+ homers for his career.



Forever? Doubt it. In the deadball era 30 homers was thought to be unattainable. Whn Ruth hit 60 homers in a season, nobody thought that record would ever be broken. When Jackie Robinson was called up, nobody thought it would last. Give the game time to evolve, and feats we see as very impressive today will be the norm in the future.

I agree with what you say Clown. I don't think you can make a fair comparison of Bonds and Ruth in my opinion because of the different times.

But looking at Bond's numbers I'd say with all his records he's the greatest player.

And EPoch you said if you add 30 HR for his first four years or whatever that's 120 more...you can't just start adding homeruns that don't exist, he didn't do it......I can make the same argument for Griffey, add 30x (years he was injured in Cincy) and he'd be the greatest...you can't just make up hypothetical situations. I'm talking about what's on paper.

And Clown the whole walks thing, I mentioned that because he's the MLB leader in most walks...I don't even know if Ruth or A-Rod are anywhere near 2000.

What about Red Hot Chili Peppers?


And Congrats to Bonds. I'd have to agree with Da Bears in saying that he is one of the greatest of all time. The guy has been through so much crap the past 5 years or so, whether he took roids or not, in my opinion he deserves the recognition.

For God's sake, stop crying about it. I think that Bonds is a douche, and maybe he did take steroids. Nothing has been proven, so he deserves respect, not ire.



The era when black people weren't allowed?

I read that somewhere...

smh @ Bonds sympathizers, Giants fans and this topic

Yeah, Ruth played before integration. Like I said earlier, for most players, that would make a huge difference when comparing them to today's players, but Babe Ruth was so dominant when compared to the rest of the major leagues at his time that it would barely make a dent in his comparative ability.

I don't know what SMH means?

shaking my head

That's such a weird/random thing to create an acronym for