Full Version: You know what, god was kinda a prick to women
The Tanakh is the Hebrew Bible.
QUOTE(OriginalZane @ Jan 2 2007, 06:44 PM) 
The Tanakh is the Hebrew Bible.
Hmmm. Didn't know that. I'm not familiar with the Torah so I can't say I know many of the names used.
Regardless, you realize that the "Tanakh" just means the Old Testament. Isn't it silly to ask if he's read the Bible? Then ask if he's read the Hebrew Bible?
QUOTE(Bad Penny @ Jan 2 2007, 06:26 PM)
Let's see. This is just one.
Jesus gets all teary and upset when Lazarus dies. However, shouldn't Jesus be, I don't know, happy that his friend is going to heaven? Then he goes an resurrects him, which I feel was selfish use of powers. And the whole point wasn't for him to show that he has power over death, because he has resurrected people before.
Jesus was using his power to show that if you believe in Jesus you will never die.
How the story goes is that Lazarus has two sisters, Martha and Mary. Mary showed her belief in Christ by anointing him with perfume and drying his feet with her hair. Martha also served food to Christ when he was a guest in their house, showing her hospitality and giving nature. Later they sent word to Jesus that Lazarus was ill and that he should come help him. So Jesus shows up but he's too late and Lazarus is dead. Jesus tells Martha that he'll resurrect Lazarus but she takes his words to mean like on the day of judgement (when everyone is risen from the dead.) So Martha was anxious about what Jesus said and was doubting her faith. So to help Martha renew her faith, Jesus resurrected Lazarus, and he rose from the dead.
After being brought back to life, Lazarus went off and spread the word of God. So he was brought back for two reasons and became a very well known saint.
Can you give me the quote that makes you think Jesus was "all teary and upset." Take into consideration that while he mortal and had emotions. When people you love die, do you not cry? Even if you believe that you will see them again for eternity you are probably going to cry.
QUOTE(FuckChrist @ Jan 2 2007, 06:52 PM)
Regardless, you realize that the "Tanakh" just means the Old Testament. Isn't it silly to ask if he's read the Bible? Then ask if he's read the Hebrew Bible?
EDIT: Wait I read that wrong. I think it's entirely possible for someone to just read the Old Testament. So what's the problem with asking. Also there is a difference between the Old Testament and the Hebrew Bible.
QUOTE(OriginalZane @ Jan 2 2007, 07:31 PM)
Can you give me the quote that makes you think Jesus was "all teary and upset." Take into consideration that while he mortal and had emotions. When people you love die, do you not cry? Even if you believe that you will see them again for eternity you are probably going to cry.
If he knew he could resurrect him, why would he cry? That's like crying over a sick person that you know will get better.
And you just proved that it could be interpreted many ways. My theology teacher couldn't answer my question and gave some other answer.
QUOTE(Bad Penny @ Jan 2 2007, 07:35 PM)
If he knew he could resurrect him, why would he cry? That's like crying over a sick person that you know will get better.
And you just proved that it could be interpreted many ways. My theology teacher couldn't answer my question and gave some other answer.
I wasn't trying to prove that the Bible can't be interpreted in many ways, I was just asking what parts you didn't get, since you stated before that there are some parts that don't make sense to you. If you want the true interpretation, ask the writers when you see them.
QUOTE(OriginalZane @ Jan 2 2007, 07:47 PM)
I wasn't trying to prove that the Bible can't be interpreted in many ways, I was just asking what parts you didn't get, since you stated before that there are some parts that don't make sense to you. If you want the true interpretation, ask the writers when you see them.
But they are dead!
QUOTE(Peter Coffin @ Jan 2 2007, 04:55 PM)
I'm impressed; this topic doesn't have the word "period" in it anywhere.
I don't have to have those if I don't want, either. Ah, the marvels of modern medicine.
QUOTE(Anomaly @ Jan 2 2007, 05:58 PM)
I don't have to have those if I don't want, either. Ah, the marvels of modern medicine.
do you want to be a man
Simultaneous creation of the sexes
If precedence of creation is indicative of superiority, wouldn't it mean all animals and plants rule over us?
It's irrelevant; simultaneous conception means nothing.
Im trying to show that since they were made together, neither one is superior to the other. Since that IS what the topic was originally about.
God created Adam from dirt, basically. Eve was not created from dirt, but rather from the highest order of God’s creation. (Some have joked that God created Adam, his crowning act, looked at him, then said, “You know, I think I can do a little better than that!” and then created Eve, lol). God chose a rib because everything he does is full of his teaching
Oh, this is going to be good.
—he did not take a bone from his skull because woman was not to rule over man; but neither did he take a bone from his foot, because he was NOT to trample over her (which is what you are saying was the hidden meaning of the creation account). No, she was taken from his [i]side, from a place close to his heart, because he was to love, protect and cherish her as he would himself (that was the objective of making her out of his own flesh).[/i]
What a sappy crock. God doesn't deal in metaphors. Parables are more Jesus' kind of thing. God has always been direct and to the point. He used a rib (sorry : It was written that he used a rib) because they seemed more or less superfluous - it's easy to accept the idea that we originally had one extra rib; can you imgaine explaining why God took the oh-so-useful third arm?
Everything you've said there is pretty much your opinion and doesnt really add or take away from what i said. Just... opinion. You dont know God or Jesus, so i doubt you know if theyre straight to the point or deal in metaphors.
Let's look into Gen 2:22-24 (I'm using the KJV of the bible, it seems to the most commonly accepted version.)
[22] And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
God basically presents Eve to Adam.
Its all in how you say it. Yeah, you could say it your way and make it seem like God gave woman as a gift to man, and then you get topics like this.
[23] And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Adam's a jerk, ain't he? "This bitch came outta me, she will be 'SubBC' "
Whats that have to do with anything?
[24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Cleave means be faithful here
Genesis 3:16 - Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
Lord knows the Christian Chruch has never taken any part of the Bible out of context when determining the dogmatic dictactes of their church.
I guess that makes it okay when you guys do the same thing. And what exactly did you pwn so hard you had to use a smiley? All i saw was you using the same argument i used, only you directed it at the church. pwned indeed.
No. Eve bit the apple and then convinced Adam to sin. The original sin is Eve's alone. To quote;
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise,she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Please don't bite off more than you can chew; discussion of deterministic concepts are a hobby of mine.
I knew all that. I never said anything about original sin, i said Adam was held responsible for "ruining" paradise. Not original sin.
I can tell these are hobbies of yours. Its too bad you have such a biased opinion about everything.
In the Bible, God makes everyone his bitch. That's pretty much all there is to it. the OT's God is vengeful, bloodthirsty and quite frankly, downright sadistic.
Again, more opinion. Yeah, i was pwned...
God was telling them what would be the result of the fall.
Since God makes all the rules, what in blazes is the difference? What's to say he didn't make up this result in pure anger? I have some passages I can cite if you wish to deny God can get angry.
God changes. God listened to Abraham and reconsidered his action - his very own "perfect" plan.
So God is a condescending asshole. This just keeps getting better.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Back it up.
God knows all. God IS all. God KNEW man would sin. God KNEW Eve would fall for the serpent's trickery.
You're telling me God set up his own son to die for his own creation's sin, thereby redeeming the original sin he KNEW his FIRST creation would do.
Not only this, but now you claim that God LIED to them. God told them what would happen, knowing they would fall, and then did NOT go through!
And this makes sense and is not something that seems to come out straight of the simplistic mind of a child.
What? Adam's sin is cowardice; Eve's sin is greed (possibly pride). Which of these is a deadly sin again?
Two of the above are quite simple biological results. The other is unexplainable at this time. Something does not fit.
....
Did you just deny every single thing you've claimed so far and cop-out with the old "human nature" card? why yes, yes you did.
God MADE human nature.
God is therefore responsible for whatever humans do - Jesus' sacrifice would mean nothing otherwise.
God is therefore responsible for the chauvinistic,mysoginist cultures that developped unbder Christianity.
In case you might be tempted to make the argument, “The Bible says GOD did it!”, I have to point out that anyone who would make this statement would be showing that they don’t know the Bible at all. The Bible often credits God doing things he did not literally do, for two reasons. The first and primary reason is that God is ultimately in control; thus, anything he allows to happen, he takes credit for, because he could have stopped it. Even though he is 100% innocent, he takes full responsibility for the existence of evil. The second reason is that when the texts were being written, the culture and society were polytheistic; there were good gods and bad gods, gods who caused rain, gods who caused sunshine, etc. God had to eradicate this from the minds of his people by saying, “No—I am the only one that exists. I am the God who sends rain, the God who causes evil.” Once monotheism was firmly established in the worldview of his people, God began to be more clear about who was actually responsible for evil acts.
This is all what fallen humanity did—God never designed that women be slaves, that people be raped, murdered, etc. Again, men have twisted God’s word to teach everything God is against: slavery, the Aryan Super Race, racism, the crusades, the inquisition... You can’t blame Jesus for what has been done in his name. He taught love.
We can go back and forth all goddamn day if you want, but i know i wont get anywhere because I've met a lot of people JUST like you. You know a lot about the Bible and what not, yeah, but your objective in the whole thing is to try to de-bunk it, to try to "expose" it. And thats fine, but im just pointing out, us going back and forth like this will get us nowhere. I dont really have a stance when it comes to this stuff, but you, obviously, have already decided what the "truth" is. (And before you say anything, no, i dont either. I just dont go around calling God "bloodthirsty" and what not like i DID know.)
If precedence of creation is indicative of superiority, wouldn't it mean all animals and plants rule over us?
It's irrelevant; simultaneous conception means nothing.
Im trying to show that since they were made together, neither one is superior to the other. Since that IS what the topic was originally about.
God created Adam from dirt, basically. Eve was not created from dirt, but rather from the highest order of God’s creation. (Some have joked that God created Adam, his crowning act, looked at him, then said, “You know, I think I can do a little better than that!” and then created Eve, lol). God chose a rib because everything he does is full of his teaching
Oh, this is going to be good.
—he did not take a bone from his skull because woman was not to rule over man; but neither did he take a bone from his foot, because he was NOT to trample over her (which is what you are saying was the hidden meaning of the creation account). No, she was taken from his [i]side, from a place close to his heart, because he was to love, protect and cherish her as he would himself (that was the objective of making her out of his own flesh).[/i]
What a sappy crock. God doesn't deal in metaphors. Parables are more Jesus' kind of thing. God has always been direct and to the point. He used a rib (sorry : It was written that he used a rib) because they seemed more or less superfluous - it's easy to accept the idea that we originally had one extra rib; can you imgaine explaining why God took the oh-so-useful third arm?
Everything you've said there is pretty much your opinion and doesnt really add or take away from what i said. Just... opinion. You dont know God or Jesus, so i doubt you know if theyre straight to the point or deal in metaphors.
Let's look into Gen 2:22-24 (I'm using the KJV of the bible, it seems to the most commonly accepted version.)
[22] And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
God basically presents Eve to Adam.
Its all in how you say it. Yeah, you could say it your way and make it seem like God gave woman as a gift to man, and then you get topics like this.
[23] And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
Adam's a jerk, ain't he? "This bitch came outta me, she will be 'SubBC' "
Whats that have to do with anything?
[24] Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
Cleave means be faithful hereGenesis 3:16 - Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.”
Lord knows the Christian Chruch has never taken any part of the Bible out of context when determining the dogmatic dictactes of their church.
I guess that makes it okay when you guys do the same thing. And what exactly did you pwn so hard you had to use a smiley? All i saw was you using the same argument i used, only you directed it at the church. pwned indeed.
No. Eve bit the apple and then convinced Adam to sin. The original sin is Eve's alone. To quote;
And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise,she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Please don't bite off more than you can chew; discussion of deterministic concepts are a hobby of mine.
I knew all that. I never said anything about original sin, i said Adam was held responsible for "ruining" paradise. Not original sin.
I can tell these are hobbies of yours. Its too bad you have such a biased opinion about everything.
In the Bible, God makes everyone his bitch. That's pretty much all there is to it. the OT's God is vengeful, bloodthirsty and quite frankly, downright sadistic.
Again, more opinion. Yeah, i was pwned...
God was telling them what would be the result of the fall.
Since God makes all the rules, what in blazes is the difference? What's to say he didn't make up this result in pure anger? I have some passages I can cite if you wish to deny God can get angry.
God changes. God listened to Abraham and reconsidered his action - his very own "perfect" plan.
So God is a condescending asshole. This just keeps getting better.
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
Back it up.
God knows all. God IS all. God KNEW man would sin. God KNEW Eve would fall for the serpent's trickery.
You're telling me God set up his own son to die for his own creation's sin, thereby redeeming the original sin he KNEW his FIRST creation would do.
Not only this, but now you claim that God LIED to them. God told them what would happen, knowing they would fall, and then did NOT go through!
And this makes sense and is not something that seems to come out straight of the simplistic mind of a child.
What? Adam's sin is cowardice; Eve's sin is greed (possibly pride). Which of these is a deadly sin again?
Two of the above are quite simple biological results. The other is unexplainable at this time. Something does not fit.
....
Did you just deny every single thing you've claimed so far and cop-out with the old "human nature" card? why yes, yes you did.
God MADE human nature.
God is therefore responsible for whatever humans do - Jesus' sacrifice would mean nothing otherwise.
God is therefore responsible for the chauvinistic,mysoginist cultures that developped unbder Christianity.
In case you might be tempted to make the argument, “The Bible says GOD did it!”, I have to point out that anyone who would make this statement would be showing that they don’t know the Bible at all. The Bible often credits God doing things he did not literally do, for two reasons. The first and primary reason is that God is ultimately in control; thus, anything he allows to happen, he takes credit for, because he could have stopped it. Even though he is 100% innocent, he takes full responsibility for the existence of evil. The second reason is that when the texts were being written, the culture and society were polytheistic; there were good gods and bad gods, gods who caused rain, gods who caused sunshine, etc. God had to eradicate this from the minds of his people by saying, “No—I am the only one that exists. I am the God who sends rain, the God who causes evil.” Once monotheism was firmly established in the worldview of his people, God began to be more clear about who was actually responsible for evil acts.
This is all what fallen humanity did—God never designed that women be slaves, that people be raped, murdered, etc. Again, men have twisted God’s word to teach everything God is against: slavery, the Aryan Super Race, racism, the crusades, the inquisition... You can’t blame Jesus for what has been done in his name. He taught love.
We can go back and forth all goddamn day if you want, but i know i wont get anywhere because I've met a lot of people JUST like you. You know a lot about the Bible and what not, yeah, but your objective in the whole thing is to try to de-bunk it, to try to "expose" it. And thats fine, but im just pointing out, us going back and forth like this will get us nowhere. I dont really have a stance when it comes to this stuff, but you, obviously, have already decided what the "truth" is. (And before you say anything, no, i dont either. I just dont go around calling God "bloodthirsty" and what not like i DID know.)
QUOTE(igotit4cheap @ Jan 2 2007, 05:47 PM)
Holy fuck that his hilarious.
QUOTE(Ænima @ Jan 2 2007, 09:55 PM)
Everything you've said there is pretty much your opinion and doesnt really add or take away from what i said. Just... opinion. You dont know God or Jesus, so i doubt you know if theyre straight to the point or deal in metaphors.
Hmmm. Opinions. Like, say....
God chose a rib because everything he does is full of his teaching
QUOTE
pwned indeed.
Well if we agree then it's settled
The truth of the matter is simply that I make a very liberal use of smileys.
QUOTE
I knew all that. I never said anything about original sin, i said Adam was held responsible for "ruining" paradise. Not original sin.
...so what DID ruin Paradise, if not the original sin? Adam's atrocious tan lines?
QUOTE
Again, more opinion.
The problem is that your equally vapid opinion basically boils the Bible down to a string of fairy tales in which Mother Hen (God) teaches the ugly little ducklings to become swans. Or some other crap. Meanwhile you have passage after passage of God ordering genocide, murder and incest in His name, but you don't seem to even bat an eyelash at these, because they're simply God telling the people what the rules of the game are, after the fact, even when they could not possibly have had any prior knowledge of them.
I think your view is a wee bit more conflicting than mine with the facts.
QUOTE
In case you might be tempted to make the argument, “The Bible says GOD did it!”, I have to point out that anyone who would make this statement would be showing that they don’t know the Bible at all. The Bible often credits God doing things he did not literally do, for two reasons. The first and primary reason is that God is ultimately in control; thus, anything he allows to happen, he takes credit for, because he could have stopped it. Even though he is 100% innocent, he takes full responsibility for the existence of evil.
How is he innocent? He is all-powerful and all-knowing ; he has all the tools he needs to eradicate evil. The concept of "Greater good" is meaningless for an omnipotent being ; he CHOSE to create the Universe with evil in it when an infinite number of possible alternate Universes where evil simply doesn't exist, while retaining all of the moral values we experience today, are equally possible.
QUOTE
The second reason is that when the texts were being written, the culture and society were polytheistic; there were good gods and bad gods, gods who caused rain, gods who caused sunshine, etc. God had to eradicate this from the minds of his people by saying, “No—I am the only one that exists. I am the God who sends rain, the God who causes evil.” Once monotheism was firmly established in the worldview of his people, God began to be more clear about who was actually responsible for evil acts.
God is the ultimate used car salesmanQUOTE
the Aryan Super Race, racism, the Crusades, the Inquisition... You can’t blame Jesus for what has been done in his name. He taught love.
Hitler liked Jesus now?
I can't help but notice the last two problems you mentionned were a direct result of the abuse of power of the Church. If the men people choose to trust when it comes to interpreting the word of God are such filthy bastards, who exactly am I supposed to trust?
No, the word of God wasn't corrupted. These people chose to prioritize parts of the message... I don't agree with that.
Leviticus should be as important as Matthew for Christians.
Which is why I have taken up stoning people
QUOTE
We can go back and forth all goddamn day if you want, but i know i wont get anywhere because I've met a lot of people JUST like you.
No. No you haven't. You would like to think you do, so it fits the classic persecution complex every single theist seems to have (RAAAAAAAWR WAR ON CHRISTMAS is a good example of this). I don't hate you. I don't think you're stupid. I don't even think I'm 100% right - I voluntarily spice up my post with fallacies of my own so they can be easier picked apart. But no one does. Everyone harps the same meaningless points over and over, ignoring the truth right before their eyes: They aren't being intellectually honest with themselves.
QUOTE
You know a lot about the Bible and what not, yeah, but your objective in the whole thing is to try to de-bunk it, to try to "expose" it.
Actually, I just came in here to debunk you ridiculous interpretation of the Bible. The Bible debunks itself to any rational human being who reads it, much like the tales of Dr Seuss or the Fables of De la Fontaine.
QUOTE
I dont really have a stance when it comes to this stuff, but you, obviously, have already decided what the "truth" is. (And before you say anything, no, i dont either. I just dont go around calling God "bloodthirsty" and what not like i DID know.)[/b]
In my opinion there's something inherently sadistic about ordering mass murder, but hey, what do I know
I kind of didn't read all of the discussion going on here...however, it should be taken into account that....
The three people who wrote the gospels(which have heavy emphasis in Christianity) lived somewhere 50-100 years AFTER the Passion took place. It's also generally accepted that they were almost all influenced by one person, Paul, and his letters.
Also, someone mentioned that the Hebrew Bible is different from the Old Testament...while it's hard to say if that's 100% true, it's pretty clear that both come from the same oral culture, the difference is likely due to the Bible's many translations.
Also, don't forget about the translations. I don't know how many times it's been translated before it got to "English" as we know it or close to it, but it's enough that the Bible people read today is enough different that it technically shouldn't be possible to follow it literally...not that many people do, lots just interpret it as they like and take the stories from the Old Testament to be paraboles or just something as entertainment or something like a 'life lesson.'
And one more thing....it wasn't even Christians who put the Bible as we know it together...Constantine, who put it together with a tribal council(I believe, not 100% remembering this one) and only let Christianity be okay in the empire because it was growing so fast...he was baptised right before his death and many people think the idea of him seeing a huge cross in the sky then converting was just a story to make him more favorable to the Christians...he was a Pagan(I believe, maybe something else) after all.
Also, I forgot to add...here's a fun thing to ask a "Christian"...ask how many gospels there are and probably 80% will say "3, duh" to which you can reply, "Well, you're obviously not very informed, because there were at over 50, maybe as many as 80" and you can explain that Constantine and his people chose which ones made the cut.
The three people who wrote the gospels(which have heavy emphasis in Christianity) lived somewhere 50-100 years AFTER the Passion took place. It's also generally accepted that they were almost all influenced by one person, Paul, and his letters.
Also, someone mentioned that the Hebrew Bible is different from the Old Testament...while it's hard to say if that's 100% true, it's pretty clear that both come from the same oral culture, the difference is likely due to the Bible's many translations.
Also, don't forget about the translations. I don't know how many times it's been translated before it got to "English" as we know it or close to it, but it's enough that the Bible people read today is enough different that it technically shouldn't be possible to follow it literally...not that many people do, lots just interpret it as they like and take the stories from the Old Testament to be paraboles or just something as entertainment or something like a 'life lesson.'
And one more thing....it wasn't even Christians who put the Bible as we know it together...Constantine, who put it together with a tribal council(I believe, not 100% remembering this one) and only let Christianity be okay in the empire because it was growing so fast...he was baptised right before his death and many people think the idea of him seeing a huge cross in the sky then converting was just a story to make him more favorable to the Christians...he was a Pagan(I believe, maybe something else) after all.
Also, I forgot to add...here's a fun thing to ask a "Christian"...ask how many gospels there are and probably 80% will say "3, duh" to which you can reply, "Well, you're obviously not very informed, because there were at over 50, maybe as many as 80" and you can explain that Constantine and his people chose which ones made the cut.
haha thatll pwn em good!
Ok, I read most of the topic, some parts I didn't, so if I just repeat someone, shove your foot up my ass.
In my mind, there are 3 levels of Christianity; hardcore-God-fucker, believer, and partial believer. People who follow the Bible word for word and are scared of God's "wrath" are the God-fuckers, and in my mind that is wrong.
Growing up, I was raised by my mother being told to make my own beliefs, and decided on my own what I was going to follow. My mother is a Christian, and she decided to be that on her own after a 5 year period of Atheism. I made the choice around 13 years old what I was going to be.
I liked the idealistic that Christians are based on. Commandments 5-10 of the 10 Commandments I really liked, I thought those were how a person should live. I looked at Buddhism, and I liked the idealistic of that as well. At the same time, I still don't believe in God, and I never probably will.
I formed my decision that the Bible is just a series of stories to help guide you through life and help you make decisions. It's stories teach morals and lessons to help you learn right from wrong. Kind of a way to learn mistakes from others so you don't have to live your life repeating their mistakes.
A great part of everything I have learned is most of the information I have gained is from looking something up, and finding something else on the way. I have based my entire life on that theory. It is little imperfections that make life worth living.
One thing I can't stand about Christians is how closed minded they are. Our humility and open-mindedness make us teachable. Talking to some (almost most) Christians is like talking to a brick wall. They won't ever question their beliefs but yet they force others to. They force their religion on other people who don't believe in God.
Sorry my opinion was all the over the place, I just was thinking about this and ideas kept popping my head.
In my mind, there are 3 levels of Christianity; hardcore-God-fucker, believer, and partial believer. People who follow the Bible word for word and are scared of God's "wrath" are the God-fuckers, and in my mind that is wrong.
Growing up, I was raised by my mother being told to make my own beliefs, and decided on my own what I was going to follow. My mother is a Christian, and she decided to be that on her own after a 5 year period of Atheism. I made the choice around 13 years old what I was going to be.
I liked the idealistic that Christians are based on. Commandments 5-10 of the 10 Commandments I really liked, I thought those were how a person should live. I looked at Buddhism, and I liked the idealistic of that as well. At the same time, I still don't believe in God, and I never probably will.
I formed my decision that the Bible is just a series of stories to help guide you through life and help you make decisions. It's stories teach morals and lessons to help you learn right from wrong. Kind of a way to learn mistakes from others so you don't have to live your life repeating their mistakes.
A great part of everything I have learned is most of the information I have gained is from looking something up, and finding something else on the way. I have based my entire life on that theory. It is little imperfections that make life worth living.
One thing I can't stand about Christians is how closed minded they are. Our humility and open-mindedness make us teachable. Talking to some (almost most) Christians is like talking to a brick wall. They won't ever question their beliefs but yet they force others to. They force their religion on other people who don't believe in God.
Sorry my opinion was all the over the place, I just was thinking about this and ideas kept popping my head.
QUOTE(Prickly Pete @ Jan 2 2007, 08:29 PM)
do you want to be a man
No. If a woman takes the birth control pill, depending on which kind (which I won't get into), it is very simple for her to skip one or more periods in a row. And, research is being done on it, and scientists are finding that, not only is it perfectly safe, but it might also be healthier. I'm sure that in a few years a good majority of women will be using continuous pills in which they have only a few a year, or none at all.
I have read the whole Old Testeament.
QUOTE("Wikipedia")
These twenty-four books (in the Tanakah) are the same books found in the Protestant Old Testament, but the order of the books is different. The enumeration differs as well: Christians count these books as thirty-nine, not twenty-four. This is because Jews often count as a single book what Christians count as several. However, the term Old Testament, while common, is often considered pejorative by Jews as it can be interpreted as being inferior or outdated relative to the New Testament.
As such, one may draw a technical distinction between the Jewish Tanakh and the similar, but not identical, corpus which Protestant Christians call the Old Testament.
As such, one may draw a technical distinction between the Jewish Tanakh and the similar, but not identical, corpus which Protestant Christians call the Old Testament.
QUOTE(Anomaly @ Jan 3 2007, 08:29 AM)
No. If a woman takes the birth control pill, depending on which kind (which I won't get into), it is very simple for her to skip one or more periods in a row. And, research is being done on it, and scientists are finding that, not only is it perfectly safe, but it might also be healthier. I'm sure that in a few years a good majority of women will be using continuous pills in which they have only a few a year, or none at all.
That would kind of be a bad thing...missing your period is one of the more definite signs you are pregnant, correct?
QUOTE(BlackCobra @ Jan 2 2007, 08:31 PM)
long post
Sorry man. As unique and different as you may think your views are, I've talked to at least a dozen people who hit me with the same shit you just did for the last 2 posts. Sorry buddy. You're NOT different.
Also, you keep saying that God is a killer, bloodthirsty and the cause of all the bad things in the world... but he's not. Yeah, he COULD stop someone from being killed or raped, but then it eliminates one of the most important things that God gave everyone; choice. You cant blame God for a mom sticking her kid in the microwave. its like i already said, if a doctor tells you to stop smoking or you'll die, and you continue smoking and do die, who's fault is that? Are you going to blame the doctor? Its pretty much the same thing with God. He gave us the ability to CHOOSE what we want to do, and he will not intervene. We all know the consequences of our actions, but when we make our decision, can we blame God?
And where did i post anything about God ordering genocide, murder and incest in His name? Im pretty sure i didnt use any of those words.
What choice did the baby have?
And since God is all-powerful and all-knowing, wouldn't he be able to come up with a world where people had choice but innocents weren't harmed?
And since God is all-powerful and all-knowing, wouldn't he be able to come up with a world where people had choice but innocents weren't harmed?
(I'm honestly not stealing from the Lewis Black skit. I thought this all the time before I heard it) I always wondered why in the Old Testament, God is pretty mean at times, testing people's faith and killing many a person, but in the New Testament, he is all happy and doesn't kill one person.
QUOTE(Bad Penny @ Jan 3 2007, 03:00 PM)
(I'm honestly not stealing from the Lewis Black skit. I thought this all the time before I heard it) I always wondered why in the Old Testament, God is pretty mean at times, testing people's faith and killing many a person, but in the New Testament, he is all happy and doesn't kill one person.
*sigh*
Revelations 14
Letter From Epistle to the Romans
Jews, than Christians
That's why Bob
That's why Bob
QUOTE(Juff @ Jan 3 2007, 12:55 PM)
What choice did the baby have?
And since God is all-powerful and all-knowing, wouldn't he be able to come up with a world where people had choice but innocents weren't harmed?
It eliminates choice. Some people choose to harm innocents, theres not a whole lot that God can do about that. People are assholes.
And remember guys, im not trying to sway you one way or the other... but like someone said, it helps to have some ammo, and i dont mind talking about it. Maybe some of you will understand a little bit better.
QUOTE(Brent Black @ Jan 3 2007, 05:05 PM)
Revelations 14
I don't fully trust anything in Revelations. The dude wrote it in isolation, where he was bound to go crazy. It's either metaphorical or just nutzo.
EDIT:
QUOTE
Revelation 14
The Lamb and the 144,000
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
The Three Angels
6Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."
8A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries."
9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."
"Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."
The Harvest of the Earth
14I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man"[a] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, "Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe." 19The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. 20They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.[b]
The Lamb and the 144,000
1Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father's name written on their foreheads. 2And I heard a sound from heaven like the roar of rushing waters and like a loud peal of thunder. The sound I heard was like that of harpists playing their harps. 3And they sang a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and the elders. No one could learn the song except the 144,000 who had been redeemed from the earth. 4These are those who did not defile themselves with women, for they kept themselves pure. They follow the Lamb wherever he goes. They were purchased from among men and offered as firstfruits to God and the Lamb. 5No lie was found in their mouths; they are blameless.
The Three Angels
6Then I saw another angel flying in midair, and he had the eternal gospel to proclaim to those who live on the earth—to every nation, tribe, language and people. 7He said in a loud voice, "Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of his judgment has come. Worship him who made the heavens, the earth, the sea and the springs of water."
8A second angel followed and said, "Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great, which made all the nations drink the maddening wine of her adulteries."
9A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: "If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name." 12This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God's commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.
13Then I heard a voice from heaven say, "Write: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on."
"Yes," says the Spirit, "they will rest from their labor, for their deeds will follow them."
The Harvest of the Earth
14I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one "like a son of man"[a] with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. 15Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, "Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe." 16So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. 18Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, "Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth's vine, because its grapes are ripe." 19The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God's wrath. 20They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses' bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.[b]
....
QUOTE(Shawn @ Jan 3 2007, 05:08 PM)
Jews, than Christians
That's why Bob
Early Christians WERE jews, pretty much.
Whichever way you dissect it the bible blows. As a book of ethics it's completely contradictory and irrevelant in today's society. Even the no brainer's "Thou Shall Not Murder" are ruined when in a later chapter, it condones stoning a person for mixing fabrics. Then its advocates will exclaim, "Those are based on old jewish law and aren't to be taken seriously". Of course the statement of homosexuality being an abomination is taken seriously due to the fact that it makes people uncomfortable and damning homosexuals doesn't mean they aren't allowed to wear polyester.
Fuck, even if you look at it as a fiction it blows. There are tons more interesting myth stories that follow the same patterns, such as a great flood, and tell it better. The only religious text I can appreciate is the Bhagavad Gita as its beautifully written and displays a better source of ethical balance than the bible ever could. Why anyone would want to model their life after an ancient text or any text at all astounds me.
Fuck, even if you look at it as a fiction it blows. There are tons more interesting myth stories that follow the same patterns, such as a great flood, and tell it better. The only religious text I can appreciate is the Bhagavad Gita as its beautifully written and displays a better source of ethical balance than the bible ever could. Why anyone would want to model their life after an ancient text or any text at all astounds me.
QUOTE(Incognito @ Jan 3 2007, 02:59 PM)
That would kind of be a bad thing...missing your period is one of the more definite signs you are pregnant, correct?
No, because there are so many different reasons why a woman could have missed it. It might be a good idea to take a pregnancy test anyway, but purposely using the pill to skip one or more periods in a row isn't bad unless you're really bad at remembering to take it or don't use condoms in addition, increasing the likelihood that you get pregnant. Aside from missing a period, there are other signs your body gives you to let you know that you're not alone in there anymore.
QUOTE(Juff @ Jan 3 2007, 01:55 PM)
What choice did the baby have?
And since God is all-powerful and all-knowing, wouldn't he be able to come up with a world where people had choice but innocents weren't harmed?
Yes, but that would take consequence out of almost everything, which makes choice near pointless.
As for BlackCobras posts, I just see them as "generic atheist/10".
QUOTE(Anomaly @ Jan 4 2007, 09:50 AM)
No, because there are so many different reasons why a woman could have missed it. It might be a good idea to take a pregnancy test anyway, but purposely using the pill to skip one or more periods in a row isn't bad unless you're really bad at remembering to take it or don't use condoms in addition, increasing the likelihood that you get pregnant. Aside from missing a period, there are other signs your body gives you to let you know that you're not alone in there anymore.
What reasons? You mean rapid weight loss, being underweight, being malnourished, too much physical exertion, or far too much stress? If you're not a twig, and you're fucking someone (both of which probably apply to you), and you miss your period, that's not a 100% sign that you're pregnant, but it is the most likely.
QUOTE(Ænima @ Jan 2 2007, 06:55 PM)
Its too bad you have such a biased opinion about everything.
Erm, it is the nature of opinion to be biased.
QUOTE(Ænima @ Jan 3 2007, 12:37 PM)
Sorry man. As unique and different as you may think your views are, I've talked to at least a dozen people who hit me with the same shit you just did for the last 2 posts. Sorry buddy. You're NOT different.
Also, you keep saying that God is a killer, bloodthirsty and the cause of all the bad things in the world... but he's not. Yeah, he COULD stop someone from being killed or raped, but then it eliminates one of the most important things that God gave everyone; choice. You cant blame God for a mom sticking her kid in the microwave. its like i already said, if a doctor tells you to stop smoking or you'll die, and you continue smoking and do die, who's fault is that? Are you going to blame the doctor? Its pretty much the same thing with God. He gave us the ability to CHOOSE what we want to do, and he will not intervene. We all know the consequences of our actions, but when we make our decision, can we blame God?
And where did i post anything about God ordering genocide, murder and incest in His name? Im pretty sure i didnt use any of those words.
I like how you just insult him and don't address any of his points that time. Also, BC is not saying that god is bloodthirsty because of murders and such going on now, but because of such things he commanded directly in the Bible itself. If I'm reading him correctly anyways.
QUOTE(Usurper @ Jan 4 2007, 01:08 PM)
If you guys had to go to a catholic school, you would think twice about Catholicism/Christianity.
QUOTE(Usurper @ Jan 4 2007, 10:08 AM)
As for BlackCobras posts, I just see them as "generic atheist/10".
Yeah... but dont tell HIM that.
I did have to go to a catholic school. I went from kindergarden up until 6th grade. Used to go to church every wednesday, since it was within walking distance... like going to the gym or something at most other schools.
QUOTE(Ænima @ Jan 4 2007, 03:42 PM)
Yeah... but dont tell HIM that.
I did have to go to a catholic school. I went from kindergarden up until 6th grade.
Whoop, doesn't count. I didn't start realizing it at the EARLIEST 8th grade. It was mostly sophmore year that I truly realized something was up.
I still have to go to church every Sunday at 7:30 in the morning, and I have been ever since I was born. I usually NEVER miss Mass.
QUOTE(Bad Penny @ Jan 4 2007, 03:07 PM)
If you guys had to go to a catholic school, you would think twice about Catholicism/Christianity.
I've been getting a catholic education since pre-school (currently in 11th grade) and while it's only natural that I've had doubts about my religion it had nothing at all to do with the schooling system itself. Aside from Theology classes (and the rare occasion I've got a relgious as a teacher) and the monthly masses religion is almost never a factor in my day to day school activities. And aside from the teacher I have this year (a very uptight ex-cop turned deacon) all of my other Theology teachers have been pretty cool.
Don't know what the hell kind of Catholic schools some people seem to have gone to that makes them think so badly of Christianity.
QUOTE(Oroboros @ Jan 4 2007, 04:39 PM)
I've been getting a catholic education since pre-school (currently in 11th grade) and while it's only natural that I've had doubts about my religion it had nothing at all to do with the schooling system itself. Aside from Theology classes (and the rare occasion I've got a relgious as a teacher) and the monthly masses religion is almost never a factor in my day to day school activities. And aside from the teacher I have this year (a very uptight ex-cop turned deacon) all of my other Theology teachers have been pretty cool.
Don't know what the hell kind of Catholic schools some people seem to have gone to that makes them think so badly of Christianity.
Let's see...
This year is the worst year. 2 months ago, there was this retreat for seniors, and mostly everyone who went on it turned into a religious nut. Apparently, some people were talking in tongues and dumb shit like that. The one kid that went on the trip, my friend, started writing letters to people (actually, they all did), and my other good friend got one. She started crying when she read it, and she let me read it, because she trusts me and whatnot. It was one of the most generic letters I have ever read (she kept saying "this is me!" and he said basically "You are confused on what you really want to do in life and are scared"). She didn't go all nutty on me, though, so it's cool. The other kid and I are still friends to this day. I'm not going to stop talking to him because of his faith. Doesn't change the person he is (well, primarily).
Anyways, we have a principal and a president at our school (it's pretty dumb). I think the point of the president is the do the PRy stuff. The president is a new Father who just joined this year, but I remember him from retreats we had to go on. To get a good idea of what this guy is like, let me tell you the tale of when I was sitting in our auditorium for this quiet reflection hour thing we have on our retreats where the guys pray and play quiet music.
So the priest is praying, and feedback starts wailing through the speakers. Technical failure, right? NUH UH! Father says "....it's the devil. He's trying to stop our prayer, but we aren't going to let him." If you think he was just joking around, he wasn't.
Another time, when he was saying mass at the end of the retreat, we had to kneel on the ground for about 15 minutes while he repeated the words "Jesus" over and over and over and over.
Anyways, so now he is one of the heads of our school, and he just promotes these kids who are going crazy with religion (why wouldn't he?). My one friend, who is catholic and yells at me when I makes jokes about the church, says that this guy is a nut/hippie. They do play hippie-esque music at our Masses...
There is more, but I'm bored of typing.
QUOTE(Bad Penny @ Jan 4 2007, 01:14 PM)
Whoop, doesn't count. I didn't start realizing it at the EARLIEST 8th grade. It was mostly sophmore year that I truly realized something was up.
Doesnt count? I seem to know more about this subject than you, it must have counted for something.
And realizing what? I've always had my doubts about religion and the bible, ALWAYS. it was something i got in trouble for constantly, (questioning everything) and one of the reasons my mom pulled me out and put me in a regular jr high. And it sounds like the people who run your school and attend are a bunch of dumbasses. Lemme guess... you wanna blame religion.
QUOTE(Ænima @ Jan 4 2007, 03:42 PM)
Yeah... but dont tell HIM that.
I'm drawing a blank here. Are you seriously this obtuse or are you simply being facetious? The way you talk, I'm some kind of rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth atheist proseletyzer, when it couldn't be farther from the truth.
I mean, you can totally tell from the amazinginly lengthy 10 minutes I spent on this topic that I make this an issue of life and death
QUOTE(Bad Penny @ Jan 4 2007, 07:01 PM)
Let's see...
This year is the worst year. 2 months ago, there was this retreat for seniors, and mostly everyone who went on it turned into a religious nut. Apparently, some people were talking in tongues and dumb shit like that. The one kid that went on the trip, my friend, started writing letters to people (actually, they all did), and my other good friend got one. She started crying when she read it, and she let me read it, because she trusts me and whatnot. It was one of the most generic letters I have ever read (she kept saying "this is me!" and he said basically "You are confused on what you really want to do in life and are scared"). She didn't go all nutty on me, though, so it's cool. The other kid and I are still friends to this day. I'm not going to stop talking to him because of his faith. Doesn't change the person he is (well, primarily).
My school has a similar retreat (two different retreats, and you need to attend at least one to graduate) and not a single senior I've questioned about it will actually talk about what happened. They all just say Kairos (one of the retreats, the one most go one) are supposed to be amazingly religious experiences but I've never seen any of them act differently afterwards.
QUOTE
Anyways, we have a principal and a president at our school (it's pretty dumb). I think the point of the president is the do the PRy stuff. The president is a new Father who just joined this year, but I remember him from retreats we had to go on. To get a good idea of what this guy is like, let me tell you the tale of when I was sitting in our auditorium for this quiet reflection hour thing we have on our retreats where the guys pray and play quiet music.
So the priest is praying, and feedback starts wailing through the speakers. Technical failure, right? NUH UH! Father says "....it's the devil. He's trying to stop our prayer, but we aren't going to let him." If you think he was just joking around, he wasn't.
Another time, when he was saying mass at the end of the retreat, we had to kneel on the ground for about 15 minutes while he repeated the words "Jesus" over and over and over and over.
Anyways, so now he is one of the heads of our school, and he just promotes these kids who are going crazy with religion (why wouldn't he?). My one friend, who is catholic and yells at me when I makes jokes about the church, says that this guy is a nut/hippie. They do play hippie-esque music at our Masses...
So the priest is praying, and feedback starts wailing through the speakers. Technical failure, right? NUH UH! Father says "....it's the devil. He's trying to stop our prayer, but we aren't going to let him." If you think he was just joking around, he wasn't.
Another time, when he was saying mass at the end of the retreat, we had to kneel on the ground for about 15 minutes while he repeated the words "Jesus" over and over and over and over.
Anyways, so now he is one of the heads of our school, and he just promotes these kids who are going crazy with religion (why wouldn't he?). My one friend, who is catholic and yells at me when I makes jokes about the church, says that this guy is a nut/hippie. They do play hippie-esque music at our Masses...
Not sure why an idiot priest would sour your perception of things. Had a crazy nun teach me math in 6th grade, treated anyone that didn't have a vagina like compelete and total shit, didn't let it bring me down.
Sucks that your school has a crappy president, the one we got this year, Father Cox, is actually a decent guy.
QUOTE(Oroboros @ Jan 4 2007, 10:02 PM)
Not sure why an idiot priest would sour your perception of things. Had a crazy nun teach me math in 6th grade, treated anyone that didn't have a vagina like compelete and total shit, didn't let it bring me down.
It's the fact that everyone else who is religious supports him and think he is sane.
Oh and that's not the reason why I am not religious. FAR from it. It just helps.
QUOTE(BlackCobra @ Jan 4 2007, 07:47 PM)
I'm drawing a blank here. Are you seriously this obtuse or are you simply being facetious? The way you talk, I'm some kind of rabid, frothing-at-the-mouth atheist proseletyzer, when it couldn't be farther from the truth.
I mean, you can totally tell from the amazinginly lengthy 10 minutes I spent on this topic that I make this an issue of life and death
So, you're basically saying that he's either stupid or joking around. I think the point is that you're pretty much set in your ways when it comes to such topics, and that is sad considering your young age.
QUOTE(Usurper @ Jan 5 2007, 12:19 PM)
So, you're basically saying that he's either stupid or joking around.
Indeed, because I cannot comprehend how my ways represent the opinions of the majority of atheists when everywhere I go I hear only of militant, rabid atheists like Lord Kenneth.
Personally I think theists are the ones who are too set in their ways, because they categorically deny any other possiblity. A pure atheist has an open mind.
The thing is, I'm not an atheist. I just want some solid answers of proof of a god. The "Something can't come from nothing" theory is bunked, because it contradicts itself (god can come from nothing, but nothing else can?). My theology teacher even mocked people who need solid evidence, which I feel is foolish.
I don't doubt god because of all the suffering in the world (free will crap), but I just don't see why the only documentation of his existence is a book. It seems like most religions are based off of books (sure, a great way of documentation, but why doesn't he just show evidence of himself that aren't just coincidences or assumptions).
I don't doubt god because of all the suffering in the world (free will crap), but I just don't see why the only documentation of his existence is a book. It seems like most religions are based off of books (sure, a great way of documentation, but why doesn't he just show evidence of himself that aren't just coincidences or assumptions).
QUOTE(BlackCobra @ Jan 5 2007, 12:33 PM)
Indeed, because I cannot comprehend how my ways represent the opinions of the majority of atheists when everywhere I go I hear only of militant, rabid atheists like Lord Kenneth.
Personally I think theists are the ones who are too set in their ways, because they categorically deny any other possiblity. A pure atheist has an open mind.
Im not saying your opinions represent the opinions of the majority of atheists, im saying that the things you've said and pointed out are things i've heard over and over from about at least a dozen people. Does it bother you that you arent as unique in your views as you thought?
QUOTE(Ænima @ Jan 5 2007, 03:48 PM)
Im not saying your opinions represent the opinions of the majority of atheists, im saying that the things you've said and pointed out are things i've heard over and over from about at least a dozen people. Does it bother you that you arent as unique in your views as you thought?
Actually, I didn't really read your post
. I just did, though.I was semi-joking on the doesn't count part, but the part I wasn't joking about was that I lost faith more when I jumped into high school.
And what were my generic complaints? I don't care if my complaints are held by others. It would just make my questioning more logical.
QUOTE(Ænima @ Jan 5 2007, 03:48 PM)
Im not saying your opinions represent the opinions of the majority of atheists, im saying that the things you've said and pointed out are things i've heard over and over from about at least a dozen people. Does it bother you that you arent as unique in your views as you thought?
That's not how I interpreted it. That's a-okay with me.I don't expect to be a beautiful and unique snowflake.
QUOTE(BlackCobra @ Jan 5 2007, 02:03 PM)
That's not how I interpreted it. That's a-okay with me.I don't expect to be a beautiful and unique snowflake.
I'm glad we're on the same page about something.
QUOTE(Ænima @ Jan 3 2007, 07:31 PM)
It eliminates choice. Some people choose to harm innocents, theres not a whole lot that God can do about that. People are assholes.
And remember guys, im not trying to sway you one way or the other... but like someone said, it helps to have some ammo, and i dont mind talking about it. Maybe some of you will understand a little bit better.
I think that's too black and white. I think God could at least protect those who cannot defend themselves and intervene on their behalf. I guess that's kind of a libertarinish view, but one I don't see there being any problem with. We'd still have free will, but in the sense that we can do whatever we want as long as we don't hurt others.
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